What appears to be an Altmeri commentary on Talos:
To kill Man is to reach Heaven, from where we came before the Doom Drum's iniquity. When we accomplish this, we can escape the mockery and long shame of the Material Prison.
To achieve this goal, we must:
1) Erase the Upstart Talos from the mythic. His presence fortifies the Wheel of the Convention, and binds our souls to this plane.
2) Remove Man not just from the world, but from the Pattern of Possibility, so that the very idea of them can be forgotten and thereby never again repeated.
3) With Talos and the Sons of Talos removed, the Dragon will become ours to unbind. The world of mortals will be over. The Dragon will uncoil his hold on the stagnancy of linear time and move as Free Serpent again, moving through the Aether without measure or burden, spilling time along the innumerable roads we once travelled. And with that we will regain the mantle of the imperishable spirit.
On the different time-dragons:
Don't forget that gods can be shaped by the mythopoeic forces of the mantlers-- so Tosh Raka could be an Akaviri avatar of Akatosh with a grudge against his mirror-brother in Cyrodiil.
Just like Akatosh-as-we-usually-know-him could time-scheme against his mirror-brother of the Nords, Alduin, to keep the present kalpa-- perhaps his favorite-- from being eaten.
Notice all the coulds.
Another Altmeri in-character snippet:
"Or the number could be more Lorkhanic nonsense; that is, convenient for Man.
"The Ysmir line is dead and so is His stranglehold on the mythic.
"A single Wheel? More like a Telescope that stretches all the way back to the Eye of the Anui-El, with Padomaics innumerable along its infinite walls.
"We're coming for you in every one of your quarters, Sons of Talos. None shall survive."
Lorkhan and his avatars, from a thread on the Six Walking Ways (02/14/04)
1. Wulfharth L 2. Hjalti O 3. Ysmir R 4. Talos K 5. Arctus H 6. Septim A N
Are "Akatosh" and "Tosh Raka" etymologically related? (05/24/05)
Let us be clear that etymology in the TES lore is a risky venture. More than risky, it's asking for trouble when one considers Our Father Who Art in Oxford.
That said, there *is* an attempt at wordplay, consistency, and clues in the lore, so my brother above is right when he says Tosh-Raka is "Dragon Dragon." (So is Akatosh, for that matter.) But he is also missing the subtlety in the title; in Tamriel, "dragon" and "time" are synonymous, they are bones of the same body-concept. That they are combined in seeming redundance should suggest an intention.
Writing the Elder Scrolls (08/27/10)
You misinterpret the meaning of what Elder Scrolls are in the colloquial Tamrielic. When taken in this context, to "write an Elder Scroll" is "to make history".
A deeper meaning is meant, too, but not very many laymen bother with that. Until a prophecy is fulfilled, the true contents of an Elder Scoll are malleable, hazy, uncertain. Only by the Hero's action does it become True. The Hero is literally the scribe of the next Elder Scroll, the one in which the prophecy has been fulfilled into a fixed point, negating its precursor.
Also, Martin mantled Akatosh and dragon-[censored] Dagon silly, so his outlook on time in quite unlike our own. In fact, he said those words during the dragon-[censored] fight and you only remembered them later, a comforting memory that the Jills mended back into your timeline.
Yes.
How does one eat the world? (01/18/11)
When you consider a place like Tamriel, sometimes it's best to take titles literally. Alduin is the World-Eater. It's not going to be "the end of all *life* as we know it," leaving a barren wasteland of Earthbone dirt... it's going to be the whole of Nirn inside his mighty gullet.
"None shall survive" has been a calling card for awhile, but that was only a hint to the more extensive "Nothing will survive."
Unless, of course, there's a loophole. Say, something like the someone called the Dovakhiin happening to show up..."born under uncertain stars to uncertain parents." (An aside for extra credit: what in the Aurbis makes the Prisoner such a powerful mythic figure?)
The Eight Limbs (and their Missing Ninth) have always, always made sure there was a loophole. Sometimes to their detriment, sure, but more often a hedged bet to ensure the survival of the current kalpa.
Then again:
Alduin's shadow was cast like carpetflame on east, west, south, and north...[he was] epoch eater. For as far as any man's eyes, only High Hrothgar remained above the churning coils of dragon stop.
And Alduin said, "Ho ha ho."
It's obviously happened before, so sabers sharp, and may your varliance shine bright.
Explorations on objects (rather than people) mantling and being matled (03/19/14)
Lots of things are objects. We need some restrictions to define our explorations before we go buck wild. At its root, you might be on to a very cool idea. And something pretty close to the famous theft of a famous thing.
Are we:
Limiting the term "object" to a normally non-sentient physical item or tool normally considered mundane? Ex. a rake that has not been enchanted/cursed/used by a famous magic user nor host to a demon, god, or hero?
Let's say YES
Is this rake observed in any way by "regular" mortals? Ex. the farmer that uses the rake.
OR
Is this rake observed only by other normal farmer tools? Ex. tools sitting in the farmer's shed, forgotten.
OR
Is this rake observed by no one except the interior of the shed? Ex. Self-explanatory.
OR
Is this rake observed by no one since there is no light showing in the interior of the shed? Ex. the farmstead and shed are either buried underground or under the shadow of a month-long eclipse? For these examples, let's remove any mythical forces associated with the Underworld, nature, Oblivion, the Moons, Magnus, etc.
Pick one or more
Is the normal use of the rake required but there is no one to use the rake? Ex. the autumn leaves are piling too high.
And so on. Start with this rake within these limits. Try to make the rake do something so special at being another tool that it supplants that tool so much that no one remembers when the rake wasn't just that tool all along.
On the idea of Dragons being more a state of allegiance than a biological definition (07/24/14)
You've got me to back you up. And Kurt, too, insofar as breath weapons being a form of philosophical debate. And that they, you know, feed off time.
K&K's shorthand for dragons very early on were 'biological time machines powered by ideologies'.
Does Paarthurnax have any knowledge of Durnehviir? Followup: how do you know? (03/27/15)
They didn't know each other. I just asked the creator of the two dragons in question and got the answer.
Michael Kirkbride Posts
What appears to be an Altmeri commentary on Talos:
To kill Man is to reach Heaven, from where we came before the Doom Drum's iniquity. When we accomplish this, we can escape the mockery and long shame of the Material Prison.
To achieve this goal, we must:
1) Erase the Upstart Talos from the mythic. His presence fortifies the Wheel of the Convention, and binds our souls to this plane.
2) Remove Man not just from the world, but from the Pattern of Possibility, so that the very idea of them can be forgotten and thereby never again repeated.
3) With Talos and the Sons of Talos removed, the Dragon will become ours to unbind. The world of mortals will be over. The Dragon will uncoil his hold on the stagnancy of linear time and move as Free Serpent again, moving through the Aether without measure or burden, spilling time along the innumerable roads we once travelled. And with that we will regain the mantle of the imperishable spirit.
On the different time-dragons:
Don't forget that gods can be shaped by the mythopoeic forces of the mantlers-- so Tosh Raka could be an Akaviri avatar of Akatosh with a grudge against his mirror-brother in Cyrodiil.
Just like Akatosh-as-we-usually-know-him could time-scheme against his mirror-brother of the Nords, Alduin, to keep the present kalpa-- perhaps his favorite-- from being eaten.
Notice all the coulds.
Another Altmeri in-character snippet:
"Or the number could be more Lorkhanic nonsense; that is, convenient for Man.
"The Ysmir line is dead and so is His stranglehold on the mythic.
"A single Wheel? More like a Telescope that stretches all the way back to the Eye of the Anui-El, with Padomaics innumerable along its infinite walls.
"We're coming for you in every one of your quarters, Sons of Talos. None shall survive."
Lorkhan and his avatars, from a thread on the Six Walking Ways (02/14/04)
1. Wulfharth L
2. Hjalti O
3. Ysmir R
4. Talos K
5. Arctus H
6. Septim A
N
Are "Akatosh" and "Tosh Raka" etymologically related? (05/24/05)
Let us be clear that etymology in the TES lore is a risky venture. More than risky, it's asking for trouble when one considers Our Father Who Art in Oxford.
That said, there *is* an attempt at wordplay, consistency, and clues in the lore, so my brother above is right when he says Tosh-Raka is "Dragon Dragon." (So is Akatosh, for that matter.) But he is also missing the subtlety in the title; in Tamriel, "dragon" and "time" are synonymous, they are bones of the same body-concept. That they are combined in seeming redundance should suggest an intention.
Writing the Elder Scrolls (08/27/10)
You misinterpret the meaning of what Elder Scrolls are in the colloquial Tamrielic. When taken in this context, to "write an Elder Scroll" is "to make history".
A deeper meaning is meant, too, but not very many laymen bother with that. Until a prophecy is fulfilled, the true contents of an Elder Scoll are malleable, hazy, uncertain. Only by the Hero's action does it become True. The Hero is literally the scribe of the next Elder Scroll, the one in which the prophecy has been fulfilled into a fixed point, negating its precursor.
Also, Martin mantled Akatosh and dragon-[censored] Dagon silly, so his outlook on time in quite unlike our own. In fact, he said those words during the dragon-[censored] fight and you only remembered them later, a comforting memory that the Jills mended back into your timeline.
Yes.
How does one eat the world? (01/18/11)
When you consider a place like Tamriel, sometimes it's best to take titles literally. Alduin is the World-Eater. It's not going to be "the end of all *life* as we know it," leaving a barren wasteland of Earthbone dirt... it's going to be the whole of Nirn inside his mighty gullet.
"None shall survive" has been a calling card for awhile, but that was only a hint to the more extensive "Nothing will survive."
Unless, of course, there's a loophole. Say, something like the someone called the Dovakhiin happening to show up..."born under uncertain stars to uncertain parents." (An aside for extra credit: what in the Aurbis makes the Prisoner such a powerful mythic figure?)
The Eight Limbs (and their Missing Ninth) have always, always made sure there was a loophole. Sometimes to their detriment, sure, but more often a hedged bet to ensure the survival of the current kalpa.
Then again:
Alduin's shadow was cast like carpetflame on east, west, south, and north...[he was] epoch eater. For as far as any man's eyes, only High Hrothgar remained above the churning coils of dragon stop.
And Alduin said, "Ho ha ho."
It's obviously happened before, so sabers sharp, and may your varliance shine bright.
Explorations on objects (rather than people) mantling and being matled (03/19/14)
Lots of things are objects. We need some restrictions to define our explorations before we go buck wild. At its root, you might be on to a very cool idea. And something pretty close to the famous theft of a famous thing.
Are we:
Limiting the term "object" to a normally non-sentient physical item or tool normally considered mundane? Ex. a rake that has not been enchanted/cursed/used by a famous magic user nor host to a demon, god, or hero?
Let's say YES
Is this rake observed in any way by "regular" mortals? Ex. the farmer that uses the rake.
OR
Is this rake observed only by other normal farmer tools? Ex. tools sitting in the farmer's shed, forgotten.
OR
Is this rake observed by no one except the interior of the shed? Ex. Self-explanatory.
OR
Is this rake observed by no one since there is no light showing in the interior of the shed? Ex. the farmstead and shed are either buried underground or under the shadow of a month-long eclipse? For these examples, let's remove any mythical forces associated with the Underworld, nature, Oblivion, the Moons, Magnus, etc.
Pick one or more
Is the normal use of the rake required but there is no one to use the rake? Ex. the autumn leaves are piling too high.
And so on. Start with this rake within these limits. Try to make the rake do something so special at being another tool that it supplants that tool so much that no one remembers when the rake wasn't just that tool all along.
On the idea of Dragons being more a state of allegiance than a biological definition (07/24/14)
You've got me to back you up. And Kurt, too, insofar as breath weapons being a form of philosophical debate. And that they, you know, feed off time.
K&K's shorthand for dragons very early on were 'biological time machines powered by ideologies'.
Does Paarthurnax have any knowledge of Durnehviir? Followup: how do you know? (03/27/15)
They didn't know each other. I just asked the creator of the two dragons in question and got the answer.